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Comments on Friday 13 February 2004:
Last night I learned a bit of Go theory to supplement my vague instinct and even vaguer knowledge. Previously my knowledge consisted of the rules plus "eyes good, especially in pairs" and "edge territory good, middle territory bad".

Now, however, I have sufficient knowledge of scary Go jargon that I'll mostly recognise what it means in context, though I have no recollection of what the words were off the top of my head. Mostly it seems to be Dragonball Z characters and brands of watch, such as Goku and Seiko. While I don't remember any of the terms, the concepts have all been alternatively indexed in my brain with terms that wouldn't mean anything to anyone else, such as gloopy and shadow.

Then there are a couple of terms that were given in English in the first place, which I remember the term for but still have indexed differently by my magical brain of +3 contrariness; nets are indexed as traps, open ladders are bent nets, and so forth.

The upshot of all this is that my Go-playing ability will now be such that I won't be able to find any opponents it's sensible to play against - people who are good at Go will still trounce me even with a 9 handicap, and now I'd probably be able to do the same with rank amateurs. Hoorah!

The lessons were courtesy of Xopods, excellent teacher, patient with my incessant sidetracking, through the rather excellent teaching interface behind the download link at kiseido.com, which allows games to be rewound, alternative branches to be played out, and bits of board to be highlighted and marked in the interests of enlightenment. My thanks to him and them. [11:38]

Frogg
Go rocks. I suck at it, but it's fun.

I'm better at chess. 3-on-1 four-way chess, with me as the one is hard but incredibly interesting and fun.

AttackOfTheSpam
...Go? What is this that you speak of? I'm sorry; I remain, as I always have been, video-game illiterate.

Frogg: one of my friends had this game called MasterChess - it was AWESOME. Eight-way chess, built in a circle, so everyone plays at once. My friend actually gained chess groupies after he bought it.

RavenBlack
Go isn't a video-game, it's a board game. The Japanese popularity-equivalent of Chess. (Though Shogi would be more equivalent gamewise, it's not got quite the same following.)

Both Go and Shogi are better than Chess. Renju is rubbish though.

Digi
Though I suck at both with equal suction, I'd have to agree that Go is better than Chess.

An uncommon point of view, I'm lead to believe.

RavenBlack
Two things. 1 - Go is balanced (albeit by a points handicap). 2 - Computers suck at Go (relatively). You wouldn't catch the Go equivalent of Kasparov being beaten by a Go program yet.

Digi
Mm, while what you say is true, I prefer Go for other reasons. Both are a test of a certain type of intelligence, yet Chess uses more sub systems - different abilities for pieces and so on. Go is as efficent a test (and therefore as much of a contest), yet simpler. Aesthetically, I appreciate it when things do what something else does, but with less abstraction.

Marni
You intrigue me for reasons of which I would need to give you a complete physiological background of myself for you to understand. Don't worry. My attention span lacks a certain vastness to put you through that kind of malicious torture.

RavenBlack
I'm not sure Go is actually simpler - the scoring part is as complicated as all Chess's silly different moves. The komi alone (the point handicap that makes it balanced) is about on a par with castling or en-passant. The gameplay itself is simpler, I'll grant, but I don't think the scoring is.

AttackOfTheSpam
I wish I knew what any of that meant. You'd think that I'd have a better grounding in Japanese-related stuff, given as my best friend is determined to be Japanese when she grows up, and currently mutters under her breath in Japanese at teachers.

RavenBlack
If you really wish you knew what it meant, you could ask Google. Google knows all.

AttackOfTheSpam
My friend Nathan believes that Google is the Devil. He claims it will suck out my soul through my armpits and use it for garnish on his tostadas.

Annie
would someone like to explain to me what the hell GO is? I'm kind of oblivious to what it is you speak of.

AttackOfTheSpam
Look UP!!! Third post from the top. I was clueless also. I feel your pain. Actually, I FELT your pain, but you get the idea.

Annie
ok yeah im slow, i remember reading that, but i didnt quite comprehend it. haha<\/A>/

Annie
haha<\/A>/? u put a thing for haha<\/A>/? thank u raven!

RavenBlack
I'd have put one for "im", "didnt" and "u" if I'd thought of it, too.

Annie
thanks ill keep that in mind

Frogg
...and we digress, and it is good.

AttackOfTheSpam
That sounded either incredibly stupid or incredibly brilliant in manner of Chinese proverb. I am now confused.

GobanMan
GO is a great game and in my opinion more complex than chess , i mean isnt it obvious how 19x19 board can hold more combinations then an 8x8, not to mention how go old go is ,4000 years and still being played in the same form. Go is more than a game anwaysw its an art it takes time to understand Go, but once you do you will beable to see glorious battles on the board and take part is some yourself and with the handicap stone system you are able to paly against stronger palyers without being totally crushed enjoying a great game. This is my opinion as i think is shared by many other Go players i jsut wish more people knew about it in the US.

Frogg
No offense, but do you know the meaning of punctuation?

RavenBlack
Frogg, do you know the meaning of "no offense"? Because that was very obviously a terrible misuse.

Frogg
It probably was a totally inappropriate use. But I have a mother who is a librarian, and things like bad punctuation, horrible grammar, and incorrect spelling grate on me like a butter knife tickling my spinal cord.

Pig
Well, if this post is still read...
I'm pretty sure that the terms you are refering to are gote and sente. But the definitions are inverted (sente keeps and gote loses the initiative). I don't know what gloopy and shadow are though.(by their description, it would seem that they are not very commonly used) I don't really know what nets refer to. Ladder is pretty obvious. (basically stones are in atari until they are killed by the edge of the board or "saved" by other stones (but in this case you don't want to start the ladder in the first place)) Also, ladders can provide an insane amount of ko theats though.

Oh and by experience, it is always difficult to find players of the same level (except on the internet). Also, probably at almost any level, you can always find (without too much difficulty (well, as difficult as it is to find go players)) players that can beat you with high handicaps.

RavenBlack
Frogg - then say "argh, bloody punctuate properly," or something similar. "No offense" is much more grating than bad punctuation because it invariably means "I'm about to say something offensive and I know it."

Frogg
I'll keep that in mind in the future.

Thanks, by the way. I don't like pissing people off.
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